Please post here any news about layoffs and leave the political scene on the other thread.

But even NK launches a few

But even NK launches a few missiles every so often

If only they would close it

If only they would close it all, might motivate me to get off my @rse and go get a fulfilling job, heck its not too late I might still have time for a career! I got no hope in Siemens, job ability has ZERO relevance, chanting to the company mantra (as visibly as possible) will get you way further on... a bit like North Korea really!

Any news on which sites will

Any news on which sites will be closing?
Any truth to the summer layoff rumors?

Its hardly surprising DX is

Its hardly surprising DX is still so partisan, Siemens didn't have its own people prepared with enough knowledge ready to turn it into a Siemens entity, instead they let it float on with groups from the various companies trying to keep doing thing the way they always did. Obviously people don't want to be run by people they felt they were doing better than as competitors the year before.

Siemens needed to DX train & fast track its own people into senior positions as quickly as possible and take the helm, it didn't.

ITs finally realised and is now trying to integrate it by merging with its other healthcare sector, again misguided as the businesses in reality share about 10% commonality, but the Siemens crowbar is big and the reality is the force fit is doing more damage than good.


FLASHBACK to John Houseman:

At Smith Barney, we make money the old fashioned way: We EARRRRN it!!

UPDATE to Siemens:

At Siemens Diagnostics we lose money the old fashioned way: We screw everything up !!!

How can a company that is so successful in many business sectors have failed so miserably at diagnostics? Answer: Complete ignorance of the subleties of diagnostics, and one wrong assumption after another as to how to put it all together.

My job in logistics keeps me

My job in logistics keeps me in touch with people at multiple sites (east & west coasts and Wales)and you are correct in your assumption regarding Bayer, Dade and DPC mentality. Seven years in to DX's creation I still communicate with people who hardly ever refer to themselves as "Siemens".
Apparently,some cultures do not blend well and DX is a perfect example of this. I think it's the main reason the company has failed so miserably and now #4 in the Diagnostic industry.
What is strange is that Germany hasn't taken any necessary steps to correct the situation. It's quite apparent to many that certain platforms and Manufacturing/R&D Sites are no longer necessary but Siemens continues losing money on them as well.
What is even more astonishing is the number of employee's who really don't care about Siemens. Just collect paycheck, some doing nothing else, and go home.
I've always felt it's a very strange way of doing business.
The amount of negative revenue must be enormous.

None of that will be changing

None of that will be changing anytime soon.
Bayer, Dade and DPC people consider themselves just that.
The cultures were so different they "never" were going to combine and form one unified DX. Now toss is a company which has basically treated them like garbage the past 7 years and what you have left is a trainwreck.
But a paycheck is a paycheck and people will just hold on (unless they are young)till eventually packaged off.
This has been the mentality the past 7 years.
Don't expect Siemens DX nor it's employee's to change until the company downsizes.

You have just identifed

You have just identifed another of Siemens' problems. In a well integrated company or division, people know what is going on at all of the different sites. Among other things, that is a major reason for holding town hall or communications meetings. It gives management the opportunity to let people know what is going on elsewhere in the division. This should be a part of ongoing cooperation and interaction among sites which goes a long way towards creating a team atmosphere instead of the 'us and them' culture which still seems to be quite prevalent among ex-Bayer, Dade, and DPC people. And the internal hostility isn't helping things either.

I see. I didn't know some of

I see.
I didn't know some of those details regarding LA and Siemens initial plan. If all this is true then it's a wonder they're still open!

The point about LA and

The point about LA and Llanberis was simple. From the start, Immulite was to be a cash cow and an entry point into labs that Siemens would convert to Centaur. The first thing Siemens did was to stop all future upgrades of Immulite and then started to adapt Immulite methods to Centaur. The plan was to close LA within a year or two after having transferred all aspects of production to Llanberis rather than letting LA continue to make specialty chemicals. For a number of reasons, this effort was allowed to fail and go on and on forever. Siemens has borne the cost of maintaining LA as well as the losses from not having a reliable transfer process in place. Those who have been around Tarrytown for a long time might remember what it took to transfer the Immuno 1 specialty chemicals, including the magnetic particles to Middletown. It's not an easy thing to do, but it can be done. Siemens just never did it right.

So no cash cow, no closing of LA according to plan, multiple kit withdrawals, etc. And the rest is, or will be, history.

I agree but not on all

I agree but not on all points.
LA and Llanberis are not the pillar which holds up DX. If and when they eventually fall, DX will still just limp along on its other platforms.
Don't know all the details regarding LA but here at Tarrytown we're slowing down each and every quarter. We, as other sites, mainly just work on cosmetic upgrades of existing platforms and some R&D on fixing kits.
Now I also don't know what Siemens has in store for all these sites but I gotta think the financial situation in keeping all of them is ridiculous.
Lets see what happens this summer.

The more kits they take off

The more kits they take off the market, the few people they need to fix them or to manufacture them. They will need fewer product managers and salespeople as well. As customers switch over to competitive products, Siemens will need fewer field service people. Siemens may have met its targets last year, or beat them, but this downward spiral brought on by their failure to properly transfer technology from LA, will be the ultimate downfall of Siemens DX. It seems highly unlikely that Vista will ever become a major player. If Trinidad is just another Centaur upgrade, it will wind up just cannibalizing existing Centaurs for no net gain. On the chemistry side, Dimension is ancient by now, and moreover, seems limited in throughput. The higher throughput Advia systems have not really caught on and tend to have poorer method performance than Dimension. Roche should continue to be a leader here with their broad menus and systems for the lowest to highest volume labs.

Doesn't look pretty, does it?

Layoffs? Rumor still going


Rumor still going around for summer layoffs.
At least at some sites.
Apparently workloads are down, reagent problems are up and kit removals from certain platform menus continue.

As before, it's a waiting game now.

One can only hope! Give us a

One can only hope!
Give us a package and off we go.
Entitlement? You betcha.

Anymore news out there about

Anymore news out there about summer layoffs?

For all the ills of SAP, it

For all the ills of SAP, it is lightyears ahead of the crapfest called Teamcenter that Siemens shoved down the throats of the T-project team. But that could be just the fault of the incompetent jagoffs at Siemens CV whose ONLY QUALIFICATION to manage the software for the T-project was that they had manpower available- (I kid you not!). It has been blatantly obvious from their inability to recognize their own inexperience that the CV dipshits whom are mismanaging the software- can't find their own asses w/ both hands.

Or, for SAP, attempted Master

Or, for SAP, attempted Master of All, isn't worth Jack ...... (fill in the black).

SAP as the saying goes -Jack

SAP as the saying goes -Jack of all trades, master of none

Bayer used SAP too. You have

Bayer used SAP too.

You have it all wrong. The Germans know they are better than everyone else and have, out of the goodness of their hearts, shared their wisdom. They have taken the burden of deciding how to run a business away from the businessman by providing the best possible solution to all situations. This frees the average businessman to do more important things, like micro-manage or play golf.

You will have a little respect, bitte !!! Ja?

SAP is a German company -

SAP is a German company - what else did you expect Siemens to use? The software is exactly as flexible and user-friendly as your typical German manager.

SAP is like a hybrid of The

SAP is like a hybrid of The Matrix and Nightmare on Elm Street. It spreads like a virus and is resistant to most treatment other than a complete exorcism.

I can see the movie already: The Company Killer

SAP is moving into the

SAP is moving into the Elkhart site as we speak. What a nightmare.

Amen to all that.

Amen to all that.

They won't be replaced. Most

They won't be replaced.
Most DX sites in US have a job freeze. So, when people leave you'll be doing whatever work they had. Some sites don't have much work anyway for the amount of people they carry.
But those with lots of work, don't expect any large pay increase to cover it. Not going to happen.
In the end only oldtimers and deadwood will be left to carry the torch.
People in their 20's are leaving in droves. They finally understand they have no future in DX and don't want to waste their primary good working years with no hope for a management position. Ironically, company's like Roche are reaping the benefits of knowledgeable employee's leaving Siemens.
Will any of this change. Seriously doubt it.
As previously written, going from #1 to #4 in six years takes effort. The wrong kind of effort.

Ironically many of us in

Ironically many of us in Siemens are as busy as hell, so many have deserted the ship and not been replaced, those of us left are bailing the water like crazy, do we feel any more appreciated being in this situation? any more 'successful' as a business?... no, the steady flow of exits are likely to become a gusher. Siemens will be left with old systems looked after by even older pension hangers on watching the clock.

As Siemens has driven the

As Siemens has driven the business from being number 1 to number 4, one can only suspect that part of the reason is that they are selling what are basically 20-30 year old systems and having one more tired old product line extension will not be a game changer for Siemens.

True and exactly to the point.
Centaur, Vista and especially Immulite are all old platforms. There are no new platform replacements planned other than facelifts of these current models. Think Trinidad.
Siemens is putting its money elsewhere and just let Diagnostics inch along like a slug till it's finally gone...or stepped on. Going from #1 to #4 (or less) takes hard work.
Rumor of summer layoffs now plague both coasts.

"Siemens has never had to

"Siemens has never had to deal with an aftermarket, let alone one as complex and varied as manufacturing hundreds of reagents. Business 101 teaches that you get rid of your low producers."

True, but unbelievably when a significant number of system placements are carried on the back of certain assays, you would think Siemens would move mountains to keep those kits running. Nope they screw up the big ones and withdraw them causing the INSTANT loss of many customers.

Once you lose a system placement, you lose the ability to try and grow easy money, if a customer is already running your machine it cost them nothing to add more tests or assays, the sales opportunity is always there. Once the system is on the back of the truck out of there the difficulty for sales increased 100 fold.

Its been shown in the past that many customers are willing to be tarts, if an assay is letting them down or the competitor cannot supply they will switch to running another suppliers kits, especially if the machine is already on site. If it performs reasonably well they are often reluctant to switch back to the original supplier that let them down. As long as it's profitable, any system placement should be protected and looked after and not thrown away.

I don't think it is just the

I don't think it is just the economic times. The vast majority of clinical tests are fairly standardized in terms of cost and performance and, most important, they meet the basic needs of customers. There would be little competitive advantage to improvement. Under such circumstances, reliability and service become far more important. As long as the major competitors are considered to be equivalent in terms of the products they sell, most won't invest in anything major. However, in the case of Siemens, there are legitimate questions as to whether their current product lineup is really equivalent to Roche, Beckman (Danaher), or Abbott. As Siemens has driven the business from being number 1 to number 4, one can only suspect that part of the reason is that they are selling what are basically 20-30 year old systems and having one more tired old product line extension will not be a game changer for Siemens. Moreover, Trinidad is still under development and Siemens has yet to show that it can introduce any new product whatsoever. Advia IMS was DOA (dead on acquisition), Vista still seems to be on life support, and Gen-a-mess never made it out the door. Successive Centaur upgrades have been less well received than their predecessors. Siemens has an huge image problem when it comes to new products.

They need more than a single or a walk; Siemens needs a big home run right now and it seems that all of their available hitters are relief pitchers to use a baseball analogy. (Apologies to our UK colleagues but I don't know how to translate this into cricket).

Most diagnostic companies are

Most diagnostic companies are not investing in new product development as the demand for products is highly reduced due to the economic conditions. No wonder, Siemens also does not want to do a large scale development.

That may be true but don't

That may be true but don't expect it to happen for several years. By then, customers, would have moved on anyway.

If Trinidad is just another

If Trinidad is just another Centaur product extension, Siemens has no long term future. Both of their big systems, Centaur and Dimension are perceived as old and tired. They do nothing to excite or attract customers. Every time Siemens has another reagent problem, it just loses them more customers.

Siemens needs to bring out new products that excite customers and meet the economic and clinical needs of today's customers. They need to fix their image of unreliable reagents and poor service. Their next new product has to be something big and not incremental change to a product that fewer customers desire today.

Trinidad is just an updated

Trinidad is just an updated version of Centaur. Immulite has had some major troubles the past year as well. With kits removed from its menu and significant reagent problems I wouldn't put my money on it. Vista seems to have begun fading into sunset.
Siemens still is putting its money on Centaur for now. Lets see if they have layoffs (rumored) and possible notification of site closures by summer.
Regardless, things do not bode well for DX.
So many at Tarrytown are bailing by years end. Guess nobody wants to be the last rat on the sinking ship.
Some sites have already instilled a "no hiring" policy.

What's left? Trinidad

What's left? Trinidad

I was part of a conference

I was part of a conference call with MR a few weeks ago(multi-site). Let me tell you he doesn't even sound like the same guy from a few short years ago.
He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's gotta know he's the fall guy which is why all the previous CEO's before him left.

Siemens said they did well

Siemens said they did well last year; where did that come from?

Siemens as a whole did okay last year. DX made some money but,let me clarify, not anything like Siemens expected to make 7years into the game. Hindsight...they never would have bought all three companies if they knew what kind of revenue they'd be bringing in now.
There are so many reagent issues across the board for all three instruments.
Any meeting MR does now is basically damage control and praying those that have a brain don't leave the company.
At his last meeting his tone had changed dramatically since when he first took over. He's a smart man and must realize he's fighting a losing battle.
Word has it Llanberis and LA are also not doing so well.
Much of Tarrytown are people just waiting to retire and be packaged out. I have a feeling most other sites are the same way.

For all the talk about MR

For all the talk about MR being MIA, sounds like he gave a big town hall style talk in TTN on Friday. Anybody go? Anything interesting said?

Siemens has never had to deal

Siemens has never had to deal with an aftermarket, let alone one as complex and varied as manufacturing hundreds of reagents. Business 101 teaches that you get rid of your low producers. The only question is, what are the high producers right now? And more importantly, where are the new reagent drinking machines of the future that Siemens will need to grow their business? Centaur has problems, Immulite will be in intensive care soon, Vista was stillborn, so what's left? Siemens said they did well last year; where did that come from?

They are also paying dearly

They are also paying dearly for manufacturing problems. Centaur reagent issues on east coast continue to multiply while Immulite reagent manufacturing at Llanberis is rumored to have over a hundred issues alone. Vista...well, nobody cares about Vista anyway.
The cost of maintaining all three instruments is burying DX alive.
CEO,MR, has bascially gone under the radar for over six months.
Siemens seriously needs to cut low producers within DX or have a massive garage sale.

Is there really a need for

Is there really a need for four or five major players in DX? It's a mature business and most big companies won't carry the cost of research into new things to analyze. Smaller companies will continue to do that and license or sell the new tests to the big guys. Most, although not all, methods have fairly similar performance characteristics; most systems are fairly similar in terms of capability. Siemens big bet was that they could leverage a diagnostics business with their existing hospital instrumentation and integrating software. They failed to understand that, even though most of the big companies offer similar products, that differentiation existed in terms of reliability and service. Siemens wasn't used to the concept of providing an ongoing and consistent source of 'juice' for their machines. Most Siemens products have no such thing as a backorder status for consumables. Their service mentality wasn't geared to hearing: "my controls didn't come in". They didn't understand that a few substandard methods would be unacceptable to many customers. Most of their competition understands these things and Siemens is paying dearly for their lack of understanding and inability to learn.

Eventually, yes. But it will

Eventually, yes.
But it will be a slow and painful death with constant fear of layoffs and site closures. Basically it's a game of musical chairs.
I'm fully expecting another layoff schedule this summer as has been rumored at several DX sites already.
Many at Tarrytown already have plans to bail by end of year if they last that long. Directors and Managers receive phone calls from Headhunters weekly. It's reached the point here that no one hides this from anyone else.
Actually,I think that's a good thing. My immediate Supervisor already had two interviews elsewhere.
It's my understanding Glasgow and Flanders have the same going on as well. Best to look elsewhere while a paycheck is still coming in.
No pretty picture for DX the next few years. Much of it will not survive anyway.

Siemens DX will be history

Siemens DX will be history eventually.

We heard DX is planning

We heard DX is planning another downsizing and that the SAP program proved too many people are employed with no work for them to do since orders have drastically decreased.
No workorder = no employee work. Stockpling up raw materials is also a thing of the past.
So all things are adding up to another layoff schedule but we don't know to what extent.
It's also very apparent the managers walking the hallways of Tarrytown are quite worried for their jobs.

Any news about the summer

Any news about the summer layoff rumor going around? Apparently it's spreading at multiple sites on east and west coasts.

Are the helpdesk's replies

Are the helpdesk's replies still coming from Ms. Kalashnikova in Belarus?

I was adding my comments to

I was adding my comments to the post about SAP issues. Help Desk and SAP issues sometimes go hand in hand.

Any additional news regarding

Any additional news regarding layoffs this summer?

so you wrote so long just to

so you wrote so long just to complain about computers? next time ask for Sennheiser, good German engineering never fails.

First order of business, in

First order of business, in my opinion, is to bring back the "Helpless Desk" known officially as the Help Desk to the US. They want to know why the computers aren't running, it is due some to these low life, uninformed, untrained people that are the front line people that we have to talk to every time we call. They don't call you back and even when you escalate the ticket they end up closing the ticket when it is still open. Getting worse by the minute.

And another rant is why doesn't a company of this magnitude be able to afford new computers to those computers that the warranties are way expired and not running right, very slow. In fact, most of the times the computer/systems are very slow.

Instead of always the answer being laying people off, how about a re look that their inefficient technology that they gives us to work with and the nitwits at the help desk. Maybe it would be cheaper bringing it back to the US and training people on how to speak English when you call and oh yes, it would help if you would understand them. I mean this is a company after all. I get this type of no customer service as a consumer and I certainly have been dismayed and confused and may I say disappointed in Siemens that this situation has not gotten better.

I am trying to figure out how

I am trying to figure out how these two things relate. It is hard to imagine laying off SAP. And whether they lay off people or not, the SAP problems will need to be fixed. This won't be the first time that Tarrytown has been exposed to the basic problems with SAP. Bayer went through a similar nightmare. SAP works very well when it fits in with a company. But when it needs to be modified, it tends to be inflexible and difficult to customize. Good luck to any and all who have to deal with SAP. You will either love it or hate it.

Rumors are once again flying

Rumors are once again flying about layoffs this summer.
The SAP program has caused major problems at sites on east coast. People can't work until a workorder comes in. For many the downtime is adding up more than actual worktime...and Siemens accountants have noticed.
Will be interesting to see if this layoff rumor has any meat on the bone.

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