NEWS REGARDING SIEMENS LAYOFFS OCT 2012 - 2013

Please post here any news about layoffs and leave the political scene on the other thread.

you r&d types kill me, same

you r&d types kill me, same old b/s decade after decade,2014-1980 is 34 years, 511 benedict is still here,and will be for at least 5-10 more. But you fools will still bitch and moan.

That assumes that the new

That assumes that the new bridge will be completed on time. Then again, the chances of that happening are far better than there still being a Siemens diagnostics by 2018. Tarrytown is already a morgue, in particular compared to a long gone era when new products were being developed and brought to market and the entire place was live with intense energy. Look around the place today. No energy. No excitement. Not much feeling of teamwork. Goes hand in hand with no new products and no new customers.

No bridge will make up for that.

How about the old Tappan Zee

How about the old Tappan Zee Bridge - it's right near Tarrytown and it'll be surplus after they finish the replacement bridge in 2018!

This one is quite unusual in

This one is quite unusual in terms of specific job requirements. When have you ever heard of an open position in finance that requires two years of experience with the application of tourniquets?

If the financial bleeding doesn't stop soon, the personnel bleeding will just increase. If Siemens is really trying to sell DX, they will do what all of their predecessors have done: Trim things down to make the balance sheets look better, and create a 'project' that has a lot of promise as the carrot for any potential buyer. Bayer fell for the trap with DAX, AXON, and Immuno 1 (the three Cooper systems that were supposed to be on the threshold of a successful launch). Siemens fell for the exact same trick with Advia IMS and Vista.

Could there really be another sucker out there to buy DX on the promise of Siemens' 'new diagnostic system'? Will Siemens throw a bridge into the deal as an added attraction? (Note that the Brooklyn Bridge won't attract potential buyers since it is not a toll bridge; perhaps they will consider the George Washington bridge as a bonus [Insert Chris Christie joke here]).

things are not that bad in

things are not that bad in the town. they still want to hire someone to manage money. What money? Do we have any? You may ask.

VP, Controller [CAI SCM]
Company Siemens Healthcare Diagnostics Inc.
Division SMSD - Diagnostics
Functional Area ACC - Accounting/Finance
Location NY - Tarrytown
Req ID 131615

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People in Tarrytown don't

People in Tarrytown don't worry about takeovers, sales of the company or new management. Since 1980, they have been a private company owned by the Whiteheads, and they have been owned by Revlon, Pantry Pride, Revlon again, Cooper, Bayer, and now Siemens. It's gotten to the point where Tarrytown employees don't feel comfortable without a new owner every few years. In 1980 was the clear market leader in diagnostics. Now they are only a part of the last place major player.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

They are all dead .. mentally

They are all dead .. mentally and emotionally. Perhaps the term 'suspended animation' would be appropriate for Siemens DX patients....I mean employees.

Sooooo quiet on the Siemens

Sooooo quiet on the Siemens DX front. What gives?

Whoever takes over Siemens

Whoever takes over Siemens healthcare and regardless of what direction they take, the big question for current diagnostics employees is whether they can deal with a second big change in ownership, management, culture, etc. in less than a decade. I just hope that they all have good healthcare coverage that includes a generous allowance for emotional problems.

And the chaos continues ......

Thanks for posting this; just

Thanks for posting this; just found your blog searching around. Keep up the good work!
Healt

Any new owner and management

Any new owner and management would clearly want to cut costs and cut dead wood. When it comes to diagnostics, the biggest practical problem they will have is not to identify the dead wood, but to find enough live wood to move things forward. They will have to bring in new talent who know diagnostics. This implies they know how to distinguish between real leaders and people with enhanced resumes. They will have to pay a high price for any new leaders given the current status and trends of things there. Overall, investing in Siemens healthcare might be a smart financial move, diagnostics will still remain a problem and will either need to be turned around quickly, sold off, or shut down. Any new investor wants to see signs of growth and diagnostics can't become a drag on that.

Typically when these things

Typically when these things are announced in Bloomberg, decisions have already been made and in-process. Shareholders would absolutely love this and the stock will have a major jump in value.
Dianogstics was never a good mix with Siemens.
If sold they'll finally get rid of MR and HR whom both never had a clue about this industry.
Definitely would also expect a major trimming down as new owners would cut to help start regaining cashflow and dumping deadwood employee's and sites together.
I hope more comes out before years end.
As an ex-Siemens layoff I can tell you this should be very interesting.

Healthcare or just

Healthcare or just diagnostics. Right now I think Siemens would have a difficult time showing much value in diagnostics. Hard to think of who would want a company with an aging instrument line, service problems, supply problems with Immulite, FDA problems, and nothing much known about anything in the pipeline. Oh, and I forgot to mention that declining market share and the fact that most of the people who made Dade, Bayer, and DPC worth anything are long gone so we are talking about an organization with very little talent to lead it out of its current difficulties.

This one should be interesting and fun to watch.

It was announced yesterday

It was announced yesterday that Siemens is "thinking" about selling off the Healthcare Division as reported in Bloomberg.
Bloomberg: November 8
"Siemens CEO Seen Urged to Weigh Health Split."

There is a basic reason for

There is a basic reason for why LA is still open and has been so hard to close. Siemens management had a plan for LA a long time ago which involved an orderly transition of function to Tarrytown and Llanberis and a smooth closure of all of LA. It was assumed that by then, RIA would have either been sold off or simply abandoned.

The plan went awry from the start and up to this date, there is almost nothing in the plan that went right. It was as if the entire plan had been cursed. That by itself need not have been fatal. The larger problem was that Siemens management really had on real experience in the business. They simply assumed the plan would be followed successfully and on time. And when things started to go bad, they had no clue about what to do. Their inexperience with diagnostics simply compounded the problem. And when things were really starting to go bad, they got hit with the FDA finding. One can imagine their heads all spinning and management being totally disoriented with two 'crises' on their hands and no one to make adjustments to the plan, to fix the problems with both the FDA and the LA closure, etc.

Siemens did manage to make their numbers last year by focusing on China. Whether they continue to make their numbers is of some interest, but not terribly important. The lack of understanding of the diagnostics from product concept, through development, through the life cycle of sales and support is allowing the core of the organization to continue to rot away. No new products since acquisition, Vista limping along, and apparently, nothing in the pipeline that will be much more than a product line extension and possible consolidation of platforms which will probably bore customers beyond belief.

The only hope for Siemens diagnostics right now seems to be to find some help from people with experience in the business and who know how to deal with the kind of problems they have had with LA, the FDA, service, and new product introduction. They need people with direct, hands on experience and not the fancy, expensive big consulting firms who will only give them canned advice and some generalized statements that management won't fully understand and appreciate, nor will they really know how to implement the advice without some experienced people around to guide them.

It's a pretty bleak picture there. If things don't change very soon, we will all be talking about the big 3 instead of the big 4.

"LA will survive again in

"LA will survive again in 2014. the truth is siemens will keep it open to avoid PR disaster. Feeding 100+ people in an empty building is not costing much."
END QUOTE

WOW...If this is the mentality of people in LA then it's probably a big reason it will eventually shutdown.
PR? Really! Siemens drops 10,000-20,000 employee's at a time. You think dropping 100 in LA is a PR disaster!

"Feeding 100+ people in an empty building is not costing much".
This is such an ignorant and lame comment it's not even worth commenting on.

In retrospect being part of the original layoff was a huge blessing in disguise.

every year for the past

every year for the past several years there's clown come out and claim the doom day for LA. Let me tell you this: LA will survive again in 2014. the truth is siemens will keep it open to avoid PR disaster. Feeding 100+ people in an empty building is not costing much.
END QUOTE

Well, so far you're only half right. Half of LA is shutting down by September 2014. Notifications were passed out several weeks ago. RIA Division's final shipment will be September.
The other Immulite half is a toss up. Much depends if Llanberis wants LA to stick around since they control how much work is being done in LA. It's been that way for several years even before I left three years ago with manufacturing.
My contacts in LA all agree on this: There is not nearly enough work being done in LA to justify keeping not only CrossPoint open but also 150 employee's on payroll.
Regardless, approximately 60 employee's will be gone by September.
So you might be right but the #'s suggest otherwise.
This has nothing to do with PR either way. I don't think Siemens cares one way or another about these employee's.

every year for the past

every year for the past several years there's clown come out and claim the doom day for LA. Let me tell you this: LA will survive again in 2014. the truth is siemens will keep it open to avoid PR disaster. Feeding 100+ people in an empty building is not costing much.

I was with a guy for 3 years,

I was with a guy for 3 years, he always told me he loved me and that we wouldn't break up because if you love someone you make it work. We could never work out a time when we were both free and just a couple days ago he said we should just be friends. I know he dont me anymore. When we were dating he said to everyone that I was his girlfriend and introduced me, told his friends he really liked me and told me he loved me, I wanted to be with him again but I never knew what to do. I tried for a long time with other spell casters to get him back but dr.marnish@yahoo.com was the ONLY spell caster that could do the love spell for me that worked, if you need help call him +15036626930, he will always come to your aid, Obviously dr marnish is the REAL DEAL!
suzan perry perr

Manufacturing is leaving

Manufacturing is leaving Walpole for Indy. How much manufacturing is done at Walpole? is all of it leaving?

"In 2014 it's time, really

"In 2014 it's time, really time, for LA to finally closeout and let us do what we do well."

There're more than one month from 2014. I can NOT wait to shut LA down in 2014. Let's do it now!

Siemens claims they are still

Siemens claims they are still selling Immulite systems. Either they are being sold part-time by the current mayor of Toronto, or the few (very few) purchases are good friends of said mayor. Who in the world would buy a system with a decreasing menu, no new tests in the pipeline, no pipeline at all, no future system development (probably including upgraded software), and no viable service support. Who is Siemens trying to fool. The entire Immulite product line has become like the Wizard of Oz, where the man behind the curtain is Daffy Duck.

One day the Siemens-Immulite story will become a case study for business students as the perfect example of what not to do. Compared to Siemens-Immulite, the Ford Edsel was a stroke of genius.

Why do think the competition

Why do think the competition is doing well. folks like me who were there at chiron. gave away the proprietary info. gladly!!!

Are you an idiot, or friggin

Are you an idiot, or friggin what. The only reason customers still buy the crap is they already pissed money away on the instrument.
Masshole probably

Something like AbbiVie moving

Something like AbbiVie moving into Walpole.
Several big players are starting the negotiations
for Walpole. merck, EMD, harvard amgen and et;;sare friggin
dying to get their choppers on the great spot.
Negotiations have already started. No way will Siemens keep pissing away money like this. This can lease the friggan thing to a player and make more then a partnersh then continue a thirty year tech factory. with a languishing line .

None of this discussion of

None of this discussion of when LA will shut down, what talent (or lack, thereof) they still have, whether or not Tarrytown can handle the entire load including manufacturing and troubleshooting, or how competent Llanberis is really matters at all. Immulite is a doomed product that will be withdrawn from the market or, at least, no longer supported, within a few years. The only real issue worth discussing is when Siemens will finally pull the plug. None of these issues are 'if' issues; they are only 'when' issues.

Nonetheless, after decades of being in and watching the diagnostics business, it is hard to think of a company that has mismanaged an activity and product line as badly as Siemens has mismanaged the entire DPC-Immulite acquisition. Siemens has managed to bungle every aspect of their new diagnostics division and the proof is in their sales, profit and market share decline.

In 2014 it's time, really

In 2014 it's time, really time, for LA to finally closeout and let us do what we do well.

I agree, LA's time up is well past overdue. Still you guy's do not get how difficult it was to get Llamberis going full throttle. Maybe we just do not have enough talent here, but I am telling you, what was left of LA's talent base a few years after the purchase could not keep Llamberis going. A great effort was made but things just could not get going on a consistent basis, go figure, none of the La specialists ever fixed problems permanently and no offense, I am saying you guy's could not possibly do any better not having the specific know how/ experience. Sure you could replicate anything LA is currently doing, but keeping Llamberis on track is not going to go well, trust me.

Don't expect much help from

Don't expect much help from LA for two reasons: most of the expertise that could really help with the transfer is gone and there is zero motivation for those remaining to cooperate with the transfer.
END QUOTE

Not most, but all of the expertise in LA is long long gone.
The remaining, quite frankly, couldn't troubleshoot a Thanksgiving turkey. Either they were part of the layoff or just left on their own. Most were just fed up with Siemens and decided to head for greener pastures.
So it's not that LA doesn't want to help...they just can't. I've been in touch with people there and, it's true, ZERO motivation with morale lower than floor crawling.
Basically clueless on fixing any kits.

I know here at Tarrytown we can handle this work and help Llanberis get back on track...without removing Kits from Immulites menu because they couldnt' troublshoot the problems.
In 2014 it's time, really time, for LA to finally closeout and let us do what we do well.

You at Tarrytown may indeed

You at Tarrytown may indeed have far more experience and talent in this field, so your success rate may indeed be far better. Let's hope so, because my intuition tells me that you guy's are going to have many, many sleepless nights coming.
END QUOTE

If it was three years ago you'd probably be right.
But these days LA has only three things it does.
1)Allergens: No brainer, we can handle the Japanese contract.
2)AP Conjugations for Immulite: Slightly touchy depending on the kit but we can handle it.
3)Monoclonals: Eventually it'll be outsourced anyway.

That pretty much sums up what LA does. Tarrytown or even Walpole can handle this relatively small workload.
The 4quarter Siemens sales dropped by 10%. If you want to save money then this is a no brainer as well.
I don't think we'll be losing too much sleep over this.

The makes no sense

The makes no sense whatsoever. If you do like your job at Siemens you are almost certainly dead wood. Even a management as dumb as Siemens will shed some dead wood once in a while, even if it's only by accident.

the latest rumor i heard is

the latest rumor i heard is if you like your job at Siemens, you can keep it. period. no matter what.

That was the whole flaw in

That was the whole flaw in Bayer's holy technical review system. The reviewers were never technically competent and the few who were, were politically and not technically motivated. The whole technical review and PACE system was an utter sham. The only talent that management had was their ability to make Germany believe they had a future product on their hands and that all of he delays, cutting back on features and customer requirements, and problems were nothing to worry about and that eventually IMS would be released and start to dominate the entire clinical chemistry and immunochemistry market. Every one of the Core Team members knew the whole project was a fake and yet just went on with it year after expensive year. Not a single person had the guts to stand up and tell the truth.

"...extensive list of action

"...extensive list of action items that came out of those reviews..."
The most incredible thing about the action items was that utter, and ignorant, garbage from unqualified reviewers had to be treated as if it made sense! It made no difference if the "Why don't you just..." suggestion was physically or technologically impossible, it still had to be addressed formally in writing, "...with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was..." (cue the music from Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant).

Tarrytown is ready and

Tarrytown is ready and waiting and we can seriously cut costs as well.

You may think you are ready but you have no clue. All these postings detail how people at the LA site hid procedures, lacked complete documentation, etc., etc. But I am telling you, and I was an actual witness to the proceedings, that the people at the LA site did indeed do everything they could think of to get Llamberis going. Many, many trips here to Llamberis were taken by the principals involved and under threat to their reputations, they were still never able to resolve all the issues. Maybe its the water, who knows, but things just never worked quite the same as in LA. Many attempts were made to carry the product from start to finish under direct supervision by LA specialists, and still problems persisted.

You at Tarrytown may indeed have far more experience and talent in this field, so your success rate may indeed be far better. Let's hope so, because my intuition tells me that you guy's are going to have many, many sleepless nights coming.

Germans do care about

Germans do care about documentation. In this case, the documentation has to do with how to manufacture a reproducible chemical product. That documentation existed long before IMS, Gerry, or Bayer. It went way back to the Technicon days. It is pretty standard stuff for any company that has to deal with the FDA and their inspections which date back to the 70s and the early Middletown days. Gerry and his crew just went wild with the concept. They held all these reviews with dozens of thick books of data and analysis. They killed a few more trees with the extensive list of action items that came out of those reviews and which were more likely to ignored or rendered unnecessary by lowering the so-called customer requirements than they were to be addressed. Those were the good old days of chaos and tyranny. Add it all up and Bayer pretty much threw away close to a billion dollars on a project that they knew would never become commercially viable. And trust me, most of them knew.

"At least the people in

"At least the people in Tarrytown understand the need for decent documentation"
When I was at TT (during the height of IMS with Gerry), documentation was all that was cared about, and I've heard that things have gotten even worse. It may well be that you'll end up with reams of documentation to be approved at multiple levels of management in lieu of any actual product.

Tarrytown may be ready and

Tarrytown may be ready and willing, but if and when the documentation comes through to Tarrytown, you may regret your enthusiasm. You might get a complete set of fully detailed instructions for manufacture or you just might get a set of notes written on the back of envelopes and wind up with similar problems experienced by Llanberis. At least the people in Tarrytown understand the need for decent documentation and, perhaps more critically, the cooperation of the sender (in this case LA) without which the receiver (Tarrytown) is pretty much flying blind. Don't expect much help from LA for two reasons: most of the expertise that could really help with the transfer is gone and there is zero motivation for those remaining to cooperate with the transfer.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall to watch the latest Siemens Alphonse-Gaston act.

Film at 11.

I don't know if LA is a GMP

I don't know if LA is a GMP level facility but the point being made is hardly anything comes outta there anyway and none of it a finished product.
The quantity of raw materials LA produces never justified keeping a huge facility open as well. It just never made sense after manufacturing was retired from there three years ago.
Much of the Immulite kit failures should fall on Llanberis since they assemble the finished products and handle all QC aspects. In this respect I would not blame LA for Immulites shortcomings.
Yes, having a GMP licensed facility is a great advantage for any manufacturing. But the material coming out of LA can be handled in a facility 1/4 its size or just as easily farmed out.
Tarrytown is ready and waiting and we can seriously cut costs as well.

Do you think that the fact

Do you think that the fact that LA was never made into a GMP level facility has anything to do with the difficulty that Siemens had in transferring manufacturing of these 'raw materials' from LA to Llanberis? Is there reason to believe that the transfer to Tarrytown will go any better other than a the existence of a few more knowledgeable scientists in Tarrytown? There are obvious advantages to making these 'raw materials' in a non-compliant environment; there are also many disadvantages and Siemens would be well advised to have a GMP-like environment in Tarrytown if they cannot go the full ten yards to creating a true GMP facility. The seemingly ad-hoc situation that existed in LA cannot be tolerated in the long run and knowing Siemens, they will find this out the hard way.

Is Tarrytown planning to

Is Tarrytown planning to produce these reagents in a GMP compliant facility or will they act more like an outside vendor? What will be the outcome of this ongoing saga of the on-again, off-again GMP facility in Tarrytown?
END QUOTE

First, no finished products come out of LA other than RIA kits which are ending September 2014. LA is basically a raw material provider or vendor for Llanberis which is the "actual" GMP compliant Facility which assembles all the Immulite kits for market.
I think you can catagorize LA as more of an R&D facility than a production one.
Regardless, here at Tarrytown we can easily handle the "few" raw masterials being producted in LA anyway.
What's amazing is how long Siemens has taken to finally come to this realization...and how many $millions they've lost on a facility which should have been closed over three years ago.
It's another reason your raise this year will once again average 2.5%.
Siemens is quite good at wasting money.

Let's sum it up - this is why

Let's sum it up - this is why I left Siemens after 24 years with a legacy company. TOXIC ENVIRONMENT.

Is Tarrytown planning to

Is Tarrytown planning to produce these reagents in a GMP compliant facility or will they act more like an outside vendor? What will be the outcome of this ongoing saga of the on-again, off-again GMP facility in Tarrytown?

They'll be transferred

They'll be transferred sometime next year. Tarrytown and Flanders are both gearing up to handle all of US Immulite reagent work for Llanberis.
Word is, at least on east coast, they'll be shutting down all of LA as RIA closes down next September. CrossPoint will not be DX related anymore. Whether the facility is sold or just leased to another Siemens Division is not known at this time. It's not a concern anyway.
But Tarrytown is definitely prepping for the additional work which really isn't that much anyway.
My department already has had some meetings regarding whom will handle the different reagent manufacturing.
Anyone here will tell you it's long overdue anyway.

Just look up for signs of

Just look up for signs of flying donkeys.

When are the Allergens being

When are the Allergens being produced in LA being transferred to Tarrytown?

Siemens Earnings Report comes

Siemens Earnings Report comes out Thursday.

Who wants to make a testable pridiction for DX performance for the year?

Pick your score card (net proffit, gross sales , whatever), just pick something that we will be able to test when the numbers come out.

Tune back in on Thursday to see who wins best prediction.

I just drove past the

I just drove past the Flanders site, and there is a vast amount of land clearing/construction work going on. There was already land in the rear of the existing property to at least double the current facility, and the construction fence includes a both an adjacent commercial building and a neighboring home. Basically, everything to the left of the white rectangular church building (I don't know how far North things go): https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.8359,-74.705325&spn=0.005666,0.011362&...

Give us a year at

Give us a year at most.

Gesundheit!!

CrossPoint has been a waste

CrossPoint has been a waste of "millions" of dollars.
There is no logical reason for LA to still be open.
Between Tarrytown, Flanders & Walpole to handle the relatively small amount of work down in LA I can only assume Siemens just loves tossing money down the pit.

Tarrytown was also told raises this year will be between 2-3% average.

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