Heard that there is some management shuffling going on for Starlite.

Should be interesting. Wonder if JB can come up with any data...

This should be interesting>

3:30 pm-4:00 pm
Joseph Beechem, Life Technologies, “Single Molecule Real-Time Nucleic Acid Sequencing-by-Synthesis Using Quantum-dot (Qdot™) Nanocrystal and Dye-Labeled DNA Polymerases with FRET-Based Detection”

The prize will not be won by ILMN, LIFE, PacBio, Roche, Helicos, Ion Torrent or other sequence commodity tool companies.

The prize will be won by informatics, whoever makes sense out of the data generated by the above.

We will see boys and girls, is it the hare or tortoise? My guess is this time, very much like the 3700 / MB, it will be the tortoise. The only thing is this time the prize will be shared about a little more.

"Remember your history. First to market and set to dominate that particular era of sequencing was MegaBace. AB fought hard and overcame and went on to become the strongest player. And how headed MegaBace? And how is fighting back? A question of history repeating itself?"

I do remember my history. ABI was still building instruments in the field to try and catch up with MD and won with better simplicity and automation...things that ABI apparently forgot about with SOLiD :)

Next gen sequencers (and third gen) are completely different than CE since the focus is on whole genome sequencing. CE sequencers still have a market for confirming sequences of clones and potential mutations.

ILMN's older models of sequencers have no use besides whole genome/transcriptome sequencing and have been made obsolete by their own company. Since customers of these older models can't upgrade their only choice is to get a new one. Who would buy an instrument which may be obsolete after less than a year as the GAII was/is?

"How did the 377 to 3700 to 3730xl transition go for ABI? 90% market share until NGS came on the scene. I am willing to bet Illumina will do ok."

Remember your history. First to market and set to dominate that particular era of sequencing was MegaBace. AB fought hard and overcame and went on to become the strongest player. And how headed MegaBace? And how is fighting back? A question of history repeating itself?

Sure there is competition as there was with CE (MD, Pharmacia, Beckman, ...), but who is truly going to unseat Illumina, not just attack niche markets?

>>How did the 377 to 3700 to 3730xl transition go for ABI? 90% market share until NGS came on the scene. I am willing to bet Illumina will do ok.

But in these times there were no serious competitors on the market. That is totally different now. Illumina is facing hard times. They will loose market share and we will not see one company dominating the market as AB does with CE. And this is good for the customers

Defective Sequencing Reagents to Cost Illumina up to $23M in 2009; Company Says Problem is Solved
November 03, 2009

The faulty reagent kits, a problem that Illumina said it first discovered in September and has since rectified, cost the company up to $8 million in lost revenue in the third quarter. The issue is expected to decrease revenues in the fourth quarter by up to $15 million.

http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/defective-sequencing-reagents-cost-i...

How did the 377 to 3700 to 3730xl transition go for ABI? 90% market share until NGS came on the scene. I am willing to bet Illumina will do ok.

You guys have odwalla. I think that's the smoothies referred to.

$30 million? Where did that number come from; your ass?

Desperation is such an unattractive trait. I guess that $30 million reagent snafu is really hurting? Or is it that by making the GAII obsolete and un-upgradable you have essentially wiped out your past market leadership?

Neither of the two FC cafeterias sell smoothies.

I second the last post. Training had unlimited food coupon for their cafeteria. 17 chocolate bars, extra smoothies, etc were not uncommon to be grubbed by the poor folk (financially and situationally) learning how to use SOLiD 2.

Actually I am right. Training was 2 weeks with solid 2 plus another few days for bioinformatics. Curriculum changed from training to training as trainers varied from class to class. They've cut it down to a week now, correct, but there's also different trainings offered depending on what you want to learn.
And $10 is a new implementation I guess, within the last year or so. $10 is a low cap. Its not hard to pass that. We were unlimited and explicitly told that.

how do U know????? i think he is telling the truth and I wanna apply to that company!!!

Idiot posters with false info. The training is one week and the lunch tickets max out at 10 bucks. What a moron.

WoW where can i apply?

I bet your boss would be thrilled to know how much you got out of your "training".

FC SOLiD training was a blast actually. Free flight to SF and free hotel.
2 weeks of minimal training and nonstop food action- they don't stop bringing you shit to eat. I heard a guy managed to get comped $70 worth of food in one lunch session. Everyone I've met who went has tried to beat the record in the competition, I bet its topped $100 by now.

I have a SOLiD 3 and it does not "break down on a weekly basis"
When I went through training in FC several customers were current/former ILMN customers who purchased a SOLiD precisely because of ILMN's un-reliability and the ILMN reagent snafu.

What does $200 million in initial funding and financial backing really mean..

How many millions in funding and how many millions in backing? What is backing anyways?

Ah, yes, later in the press release:

"Pending final approval by the Board of Supervisors, the Institute secured financial backing from Fairfax County, including industrial revenue bonds, which private investors would purchase, intended to finance construction of the permanent headquarters."

interesting...

industrial revenue bonds, which private investors would purchase...

Seems that the supervisors have not yet approved the bonds that those private investors haven't yet purchased to someday generate the funds to loan to Ignite. Who would then pay interest on the borrowed amount.

Is that what you mean about having raised half the funds for its first 5 years of operation?

So will AB's next sequencer actually work? I think that is the real question.

SOLiD 2's were a notorious pile of shit. SOLiD 3's are an upgraded pile of shit. SOLiD 4's will be a top of the line pile of shit.
Tell me AB- how many SOLiDs were sent back so far? How much free shit have your current customers hustled you for because your sequencers break down on a weekly basis?

But on the upside- at least your reagents work unlike Illumina.

Ignite has raised over half of its required $400M to fund its next 5 years. Information in the public domain.

Yes but it is better if the customer has money:

http://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/bgi-receive-15b-collaborative-funds-...

vs

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2009/11/16/daily37....

"$100 million goal for the first five years of startup costs" oh and use it to "create a 300,000-square-foot research campus"

So where is the money for the sequencers coming from? At list LIFE would be receiving almost half Ignite's funding for the next five years ($495k x 100). I don't believe that.

Statement on ILMN and BGI which is virtually identical to the LIFE statement about revenue being recognized over the next 3 years.

"Installations of HiSeq 2000 systems will begin in the first quarter and continue over the subsequent three quarters. Revenue related to the sale of these instruments is expected to be recognized over the next three years."

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_v...

Ignite was just in late 2009 and they have at least $50 million now and will have $100 million in funding for the first 5 years.

Anyone who thinks BGI didn't get a major discount from ILMN for their sequencer order is also pretty "weasely"

How many people work at Ignite and how much money do they have for system purchases? Those answers will tell you what the real story is between Ignite and LIFE.

Yep, definitely another planet or an ILMN employee which is the same thing I guess.

Customer satisfaction is Illumina's model. Not a LIFE craming down the throat business model to the bottom line. Get real! Not Life!

Oh brother, like ILMN's bottom line is not their wallet?
What planet are you from?

and a 100 instrument order to rival BGI's.

Read that press release carefully. Ignite is not "purchasing" instruments. They are "acquiring" them in a collaboration with LIFE. Just vague statements about revenues accumulating over the next three years (read--reagent revenues??). Why can't LIFE write a straightforward press release without any weasel words in it?

Dude or dudette, it's not about AB anymore, it's about LIFE. Their history is documented RE: taking over companies. It's death to the product lines! Whatever AB used to do will decay or be discontinued. Look at what happened to Quantum Dot and Molecular Probes.

Lucifer only cares about his wallet and it's thickness. Illumina will win in the end.

AB's strategy of upgrading instruments rather than obsoleting instruments within a year of production is far better for their customer base than ILMN's. It's also better for AB's customers that they haven't had to recall $30 million in reagents and have their customers repeat all their experiments for the last few months.

At the end of the day. How many times has AB failed to deliver upgrades for the SOLiD. They are pushing that box further and further than anyone expected.

Totally realistic. Look at previous announcements. Life has always produced even their future levels of performance for months before in their labs before releasing it publically. Add to that still unrivalled accuracy, and a 100 instrument order to rival BGI's.

Sarcasm so becomes you...

Totally realistic. Look at previous announcements. Life has always produced even their future levels of performance for months before in their labs before releasing it publically. Add to that still unrivalled accuracy, and a 100 instrument order to rival BGI's.

Solid 4 --> 100 GB --> 6000$ / human Genome
Solid 4hq --> 300 GB --> 3000$ / human Genome

Any comments ? Is this realistic ?

The best you can hope for is an ordered array version of SOLiD, and perhaps a "little brother" for the low end market.

Same crap chemistry, same terrible error profile.

you can wait a few weeks for ABGT, or ask a sales rep. they are spilling the beans early.