Bio-Rad LSG: Why doesn't anyone here talk about it?

Have they become that irrelevant in the industry, or are they that perfect?

"I am a postoc from England

"I am a postoc from England and I have an interview coming with Bio-Rad...I was sude to use Bio-Rad products and I was very satisfied with the service provided for us."

BioRad had trouble to recruit high quality scientists for a long time due to lower pay, rural location.
Hiring cheap oversea postdocs is the common hring practice for now. As a result, BioRad is a training ground for these postdocs, and a crappy product vendor.

I am a postoc from England

I am a postoc from England and I have an interview coming with Bio-Rad...I was sude to use Bio-Rad products and I was very satisfied with the service provided for us.

just the best ones !

just the best ones !

"Seldi -- I don't think you

"Seldi -- I don't think you would find anyone to disagree with that. "

BC disagreed.

"We're confident that Bio-Rad's SELDI technology combined with the flexibility delivered by
Bruker's TOF/TOF systems will offer tangible benefits to researchers for protein biomarker
discovery," said Brad Crutchfield, Bio-Rad Vice President and Life Science Group Manager. "We
welcome the opportunity to work with Bruker, a company that, similar to Bio-Rad, has a long
history of advancing life science research through its commitment to customer support."

http://www.lucidproteomics.com/content/bio-rad-and-bruker-partner-offer-...

http://www.labspaces.net/blog

http://www.labspaces.net/blog/548/An_Open_Letter_to_Bio_Rad___This_is_go...

"
Thomas Joseph

Rate Post:

0 Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:03 am CDT Being the one who originally gave GR grief, I should mention why my hatred of Bio-Rad burns with a white hot fire. First, I hate BioRad for buying out MJ Research and then turning what was an awesome line of thermal cyclers into complete shit. Second, their imaging systems suck, hard. We bought one from BioRad, and while I can no longer remember what system we had (purchased in the mid to late 90s) we had a hell of a time getting it to work. I hated using the software, and while the machine itself was durable (very few problems with the light box or printer) the software was rotten to the core. The final nail in the coffin was their damn qPCR system. It was purchased before I wound up at my current place of employment, but the minute I laid eyes on this machine I knew I was royally fucked ... and it didn't come as any surprise when things started to break on it. At one point the tech actually used duct tape to keep a piece in place. Duct tape! Lord have mercy on BioRad. "

How many MJ employees are

How many MJ employees are still working for Bio-Rad

That doesn't sound like any

That doesn't sound like any PCR instrument I have ever used. At least post an example of a broken PCR instrument, not a gel box.

All MJ empoloyee had been

All MJ empoloyee had been either laid off or left on their own feet. They simply could not fit into BioRad's culture.
PCR products BioRad making now is totally different from MJ's. Customers view current BioRad PCR products as crappy.

"
Genomic Repairman

1 Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 9:37 am CDT In my last lab, we used Novex setups and they worked great. I still use Invitrogen protein standards just because the MW are now committed to memory. For qPCR I'd use ABI or Roche over BioRad any day of the week. I understand stuff breaking but what frustrates me is when BioRad sends me stuff that is broken/will not work right out of the box. I don't have time to QC their work for them. Take for instance the cracked gel box, this was my phone conversation with the rep:
GR: "Hey we just got a gel box from you guys and its cracked and leaking."
BR: "Really, its cracked? Are you sure its not just a scratch?"
GR: "Water doesn't leak out of scratches, its a crack."
BR: "Are you sure its leaking?
GR: "I've got a puddle of buffer at my feet, I'm sure its leaking."
BR: "Really that's weird."
GR: "Well are you going to fix it?"
BR: "Why don't you just glue the crack and see if that works?"
GR: "Um because I bought a gel box that should work, not one that has a crack that I have to glue. You need to replace this piece of crap."
BR: "Yeah, I'll have to get back to you."

"

Seldi -- I don't think you

Seldi -- I don't think you would find anyone to disagree with that. I don't know what was paid for MJ...but seems that Bio-Rad is selling a whole lot of PCR and RT-PCR instruments these days. Was it a bad move to buy them?

"Their only advantage is size

"Their only advantage is size and reach. If they decide to enter a market view as hot, they can do so by tossing a pile of money and it and gain share. However, they sacrifice profit in the process."

They did exactly the above to buy MJ & SELDI. Which helped BioRad to lose a lot of $$$.

I'd say the key point here is

I'd say the key point here is that in addition to not being a good leader, BC's education and experience are limited in scope. Despite this he is the top decision maker in LSG. He like most senior management in LSG take what they most recently read in HBR and then attempt to apply it to their business without any vision to the long term. As a consequence they have become a weak company with nothing novel to offer.

Their only advantage is size and reach. If they decide to enter a market view as hot, they can do so by tossing a pile of money and it and gain share. However, they sacrifice profit in the process.

Is Beth Ladin a genius ?

Is Beth Ladin a genius ?

"Point is...how is level of

"Point is...how is level of education relevant to success and leadership? These were two easy ones...probably many examples of leaders with higher (or even complete) educations. I have a PhD and wouldn't say I am a good leader. You simply sound like a highly educated person with an overinflated ego (brought on by you high education?)"

How many life science companies had BS CEO?? Steve Jobs, Bill Gates etc. are genius.
Is BC a genius?

If LIFE interview BC, it was

If LIFE interview BC, it was just to pump him for info

"Experience Vice President

"Experience
Vice President Bio-Rad

Education
University of California, Davis
physiology
1980 – 1984"

Hmmmmm.

Jack Welch
Education
M.S. and Ph.D at University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
okay...looks good.

Wait...
Steve Jobs
Education
Homestead High School
oh yeah...one semester of college

Larry Ellison
Education
Sullivan High School
2.5 years of college (did better than Steve)

Point is...how is level of education relevant to success and leadership? These were two easy ones...probably many examples of leaders with higher (or even complete) educations. I have a PhD and wouldn't say I am a good leader. You simply sound like a highly educated person with an overinflated ego (brought on by you high education?)

Thermo just bought Dionex.

Thermo just bought Dionex. Not BioRaD LSG. They made the right choice for sure.

Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc., the world’s largest maker of lab instruments, agreed to acquire Dionex Corp. for about $2.1 billion in cash to expand its water analysis business in China.

Or could it be that BC has


Or could it be that BC has not gotten LSG to the level of profitability that NS desires? How many years does he get before he's removed? BC is looking out for himself if he's looking for another job. He probably figures his days are numbered at Bio-Rad. After all, what has he really accomplished as VP of LSG?

BC is a buddy of NS. BC

BC is a buddy of NS.
BC starts job hunting means one thing: BioRad is ready for after DS time.

To alll you LSGers, you all

To alll you LSGers, you all need to realize that one day you will no longer work there. You have to decide how you'll leave, with your head held high because you stood up to the incompetence of management or stick around for a long time and leave on your knees. Senior management doesn't get this choice, they've all been on their knees too long already.

Get busy living or get busy dying.

"Who is BC ?" Experience Vice

"Who is BC ?"

Experience
Vice President Bio-Rad

Education
University of California, Davis
physiology
1980 – 1984

VP of life science

VP of life science

Who is BC ?

Who is BC ?

How was BC's recent job

How was BC's recent job interview with life tech?
He would wish
I dont' think he could even cut it as a mid-level director there

How was BC's recent job

How was BC's recent job interview with life tech?

the same shit every year with

the same shit every year with sales meeting, how great we are!!
Well, let's all challenge BC (or whichever senior manager shows up) with some reality. Obviously, the great customer focus initiative hasn't led to the great growth forecasted. Rehashed products aren't cutting it either. Let's challenge the basic business strategy of LSG at the meeting. Who's with me?

the same shit every year with

the same shit every year with sales meeting, how great we are!!

Topic: Who is the biggest

Topic: Who is the biggest idiot of a manager in LSG?
Discuss amongst yourselves.

"And for just a bit of

"And for just a bit of balance...posts from the same blog. Lets not kid ourselves...every company has its issues. I have had bad experiences with most.
"

Sorry for any possible misunderstanding then.
So you meant that all companies had their own issues? That's true for sure.

But Bay area IT professionals prefer to work for google over yahoo for a good reason. And BioRad is on their bottom list for a good reason as well.

Among its competitors, BioRad LSG is one of the worst if not the worst. Any disagreement on this point?

"It sounds only one reply you

"It sounds only one reply you quoted had positive review of BIORAD products. All the rest were about how bad BioRAd's gel, PCR and imaging system were. And also how bad BioRAD's service was. Plus how overpriced BioRad's products are."

If you had paid attention to the "and for some balance" part, perhaps your super-sharp brain would have made the connection that the post was meant to show that people have similar frustrations with other companies (not hiding the fact that people have issues with biorad products). I understand that this is a post to bash biorad -- and it looks like you have taken the opportunity to reiterate this in your completely objective reply. (sarcasm intended)

So whos looking forward to

So whos looking forward to the sales meeting in Canada?

ok, may (better: hope) the

ok, may (better: hope) the clinical diagnostic division of Bio-Rad will do a better job!?

"And for just a bit of

"And for just a bit of balance...posts from the same blog. Lets not kid ourselves...every company has its issues. I have had bad experiences with most.
"

It sounds only one reply you quoted had positive review of BIORAD products. All the rest were about how bad BioRAd's gel, PCR and imaging system were. And also how bad BioRAD's service was. Plus how overpriced BioRad's products are.

"
Genomic Repairman

1 Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 9:37 am CDT In my last lab, we used Novex setups and they worked great. I still use Invitrogen protein standards just because the MW are now committed to memory. For qPCR I'd use ABI or Roche over BioRad any day of the week. I understand stuff breaking but what frustrates me is when BioRad sends me stuff that is broken/will not work right out of the box. I don't have time to QC their work for them. Take for instance the cracked gel box, this was my phone conversation with the rep:
GR: "Hey we just got a gel box from you guys and its cracked and leaking."
BR: "Really, its cracked? Are you sure its not just a scratch?"
GR: "Water doesn't leak out of scratches, its a crack."
BR: "Are you sure its leaking?
GR: "I've got a puddle of buffer at my feet, I'm sure its leaking."
BR: "Really that's weird."
GR: "Well are you going to fix it?"
BR: "Why don't you just glue the crack and see if that works?"
GR: "Um because I bought a gel box that should work, not one that has a crack that I have to glue. You need to replace this piece of crap."
BR: "Yeah, I'll have to get back to you."

"

"
Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 10:19 am CDT I feel your pain. We have a ChemiDoc that works well but the software has been an enormous pain in the ass. And the BioRad tech support are utterly useless. "

"
Beth D.

Rate Post:

0 Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 8:28 am CDT BioRad is the worst! Our GelDoc is a piece of garbage. It leaks from somewhere inside a highly viscous oil-like substance that ruins all the pictures. When I called support about it she suggested (and then accused me) of leaking EtBr on the glass, then cooking it with the UV for several hours and creating a "stain". In my personal experience, stains are not viscous and don't reappear over and over.

I finally got her to replace the cover since there was a warranty, but then they tried to bill us over $1,000 for it months later. (It still leaks BTW and we have to cover it with bench paper.)
"
"
Thomas Joseph

0 Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 8:49 am CDT You know, comparing BioRad to Kmart is an insult ... to Kmart. I'd say it's more like the Dollar General of science, but their stuff is too damn expensive. "

BR canada is run by terrible

BR canada is run by terrible dead wood management right now. Who just pick up a pay cheque until they retire.

There is no strategic direction or vision and its a mediocre place for low flyers predominantly.

They need new fresh ideas, new management clear vision of how to be market leader instead of follower.

"Wow. Go to the LabSpace link

"Wow. Go to the LabSpace link below and read similar posts. BR even banned in some labs. WTF?"

What's the root cause of Bio-Rad's poor quality?

Poor management might be the key.
According to BC, LSG intentionally choose to make "me too" product, he claimed BR's strength is service and quality.

But being mean to employees (much lower pay than competitors), cutting corners in manufacturing (EX. outdated Richmond plant), etc. made Bio-Rad's product poorer than competitors.

Outsourcing was used by competitors to lower manufacturing cost, and still keep quality. Bio-Rad's management is just too imcompetent to implement outsourcing.

So in short, BR's LSG is producing craps at higher cost region (california), while being an infamously mean employer among bay area biotech companies.

One more:

One more:

http://www.totalrecallinfo.com/freerecalls.php?id=14831
Trade Name
Bioflex 2200- 665-1850 Vasculitis Kit

Manufacturer
Bio-Rad Laboratories Diagnostics Group

Recall Start Date
2009-11-06

Recall Number
51677

Hazard Classification
Type II

Model or Catalog #
6651850

Lot or Serial #
950759, 959261, 961363

Reason for Recall
Bioplex 2200 vasculitis reagent kits could produce false results when analyzing diluted samples.

And for just a bit of

And for just a bit of balance...posts from the same blog. Lets not kid ourselves...every company has its issues. I have had bad experiences with most.

http://www.labspaces.net/blog/548/An_Open_Letter_to_Bio_Rad___This_is_go...

Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 8:16 am CDT
OMG! That's too funny. I feel the same way about some vendors too!

Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 8:43 am CDT
LMAO! Epic! Don't get me started on ABI though...

Mon, Sep 20, 2010, 9:24 am CDT
Huh. I've never had a major issue with Bio-Rad products, although I've never used much of their stuff outside gel/transfer apparatuses and reagents. I've found their power packs to be much more reliable than the VWR brand. And their Kaleidescope protein standards are superior to Amersham/GE rainbow standard, especially if you're running tris-tricine gels. I've even had decent interaction with the tech support service concerning an ancient qPCR machine we inherited from another lab.

Wow. Go to the LabSpace link

Wow. Go to the LabSpace link below and read similar posts. BR even banned in some labs. WTF?

OMG

OMG

It sounds Bio-Rad's "cost

It sounds Bio-Rad's "cost saving" manufacturing practice finally worked.

http://www.labspaces.net/blog/548/An_Open_Letter_to_Bio_Rad___This_is_go...

Dear Bio-Rad,
we were talking the other day in over in the Biotech Discussion Group about shameless product plugs and I made a remark that was slightly complimentary about one of your products. This felt weird and I caught (rightly so) an unmitigated amount of shit. Looking back on our relationship, lets recount the ways your product has failed me.

1. Over the past two years we have had three power packs fail.
2. Received a cracked gel box.
3. Actually gotten a polyacrylamide gel minus the fucking polyacrylamide in it.
4. Two of our thermocyclers have failed multiple times. One of them having the circuit board replaced twice and the heat block once. And they still freeze up.
5. The software interface for our ChemiDoc imaging system is perpetually mad at the hardware like it used to date and now it doesn't call anymore.
6. The BioLogic LP and BioFrac fraction collector. This thing broke on day one and had to be sent back and forth to the factory for service twice

"I don't know about the Asia

"I don't know about the Asia management team, but Bio-rad is a great company with great people. Especially I heard good things about Bio-Rad Canada."

Too funny! BR Canada is such an insignificant part of the total revenue for the LS group. Their impact is pretty minimal. Canada does have some good people. However, the there are quite a few clowns too. For example AW in Canada is good for comic relief.

WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT -

WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT
BIO-Rad - Bio-Rad - Bio-Rad
YEAH..............

kind of self motivation monday by monday.....try it sooner or later you are brain washed!

WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT -

WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT - WE ARE GREAT
BIO-Rad - Bio-Rad - Bio-Rad
YEAH..............

kind of self motivation monday by monday.....try it sooner or later you are brain washed!

do any of you losers even

do any of you losers even work at Bio-Rad? Or have jobs for that matter?

I don't know about the Asia

I don't know about the Asia management team, but Bio-rad is a great company with great people. Especially I heard good things about Bio-Rad Canada.

Totally agree! Even in Asia,

Totally agree!

Even in Asia, the manager level is stupid. They like to hear everything sounds good even it is not true and they use these to cheat headquarter. It is said some managers have "very good relationship" with local distributors, they use Bio-Rad employee to do everything for distributors not for Bio-Rad company.

So they use people who have no ability but stupid.

So what is the latest at QSD?

So what is the latest at QSD? NEW HR, NEW ACC, NEW OPS, NEW RA/QA, WHAT IS NEXT?

More risky than bonds for 2

More risky than bonds for 2 reasons: 1) market 2) accounting might cook the book.
That might be why LSG can't found serious buyer yet.

There was something about accounting risks in their last quarterly statement. Makes finding a buyer even harder.

"Not looking too good for

"Not looking too good for LSG. Barely keeping ahead of inflation. The Schwartz family could do better selling the group and investing in bonds."

More risky than bonds for 2 reasons: 1) market 2) accounting might cook the book.
That might be why LSG can't found serious buyer yet.

The Life Science segment net

The Life Science segment net sales for the third quarter were $153.2 million, up 1.9% compared to the same period last year. On a currency-neutral basis, Life Science segment sales increased by 3.5%compared to the third quarter of 2009. Sales growth of the Life Science segment in the U.S. reflects strength in spending by academic and biopharmaceutical customers; European sales continue to lag due to weak economic conditions facing government-funded research. Performance of the segment benefited from strong sales of core product lines including the Company’s next generation PCR instruments, in particular, the CFX96™ real-time PCR detection system and associated reagents as well as the TC10™ automated cell counter, which was introduced earlier this year. Bio-Rad ’s Mini-PROTEAN®TGX™ precast electrophoresis gel product line, which offers high resolution and fast time to results is also continuing to gain customer acceptance.

Not looking too good for LSG. Barely keeping ahead of inflation. The Schwartz family could do better selling the group and investing in bonds.

"A better question, why would

"A better question, why would you even want to work for them? Me too, me too, Me too.
Because most of those work in LSG couldn't get a job at a company that's actually innovative. They're comfortable in their mediocrity."

Most LSG employees work for paychecks.
Most LSG managers are toxic waste that are specialists to turn any company into horrible ones.

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