Roche Diagnostics downward spiral

They used to be #1 in the US and the world in diagnostics, then their leaders left, the FDA moved in and total incompetence followed. They continue to lose good talent and have mediocre products. And again as they did two years ago, they cut their customer-facing departments, while continuing to be so top-heavy they keep falling over themselves.The most recent reduction of 200 has established Roche as probably the only $1billion organization that does not have a true customer service department, or leader. Instead of going from "good to great", they've gone from "great to desperate".

Again you display your

Again you display your ignorance. Roche is not switching to Troponin I. They are offering their customers a choice of T or I so that the myriads of unhappy siemens customers can switch without as long of an educational process for a medical staff used to seeing/using Troponin I.

By the way, why is Roche now

By the way, why is Roche now switching to Troponin I after trying to convince the world for 20 years that Troponin T is better?

Yeah right, that's why 4 out

Yeah right, that's why 4 out of the top 5 top cardiac hospitals(U.S. News and World Report) use Roche. Maybe 5 out of 5 because I don't know what the Texas Heart Institute at St Luke's uses.

Once again change the

Once again change the subject.
This time, make stuff up. The 75% number you
keep referring to is not in the dark report, you're
just writing fiction.
As far as a cardiac event, look at the dark report it shows Na variability only, but as the lytes are run concurrently the variability of lytes is far superior on the versacell.
As far as troponin, the 17 minute troponin on the centaur is high sensitive and a market leader.
Since the Stat portion of the 6000 is useless, you're looking at a long tat for those cardiac tests.
Your cute comments on market share do not address the issue, but you are quite the wordsmith, only the facts don't bear you out.
Keep clowning around with your low market share and SLOW analyzer.
You can see where it's gotten you so far, just part of the Roche downward spiral. Like other things that disappear in a downward spiral, so will you, hopefully sooner rather than later.

You have a weird perception

You have a weird perception of slow, but since you failed to address the fact that in the Dark Daily report the Versacell had a 75% greater throughput but only succeeded at a 50% faster TAT, I'll ignore your feeble attempts to stay on that topic. I'll say one thing, if I had a suspected heart attack and needed results fast, I hope my hospital has cobas analyzers, because no matter how you twist it I'll get my results fastest on a cobas and not have to sacrifice range or sensitivity.

However, since you also like to talk market share, I'll address that. I guess you're right, customers must have been speaking with their wallets, but that was probably when they bought their analyzers from Dade, DPC or Bayer. Not everyone can BUY the #1 market share, but Siemens did and it has been a disaster. That isn't really something to brag about. I can see the sales pitch now, "We have the number one market share! So lets see, with your analyzer purchase you'd need 8 training slots for 2 people and will have to send them to training sites for a combined month off of work. Why? Oh, because none of our analyzers have a uniform interface, results, reagents or maintenance and they'll have to be trained on all of them, but hey we're #1!! Oh, you changed your mind?"

Because I shut my computer

Because I shut my computer off and went off to watch basketball. Some of us have a life.
You must be in sales as you've taken a question of speed and addressed everything from capacity to market share. Losing all arguments along the way.
Address the original issue. The 6000 is a very slow analyzer when compared to other analyzers of the same ilk. Same market and price, and the 6000 proves to be SLOW.

Why did the siemens guy get

Why did the siemens guy get so quiet?

Again you're missing the

Again you're missing the point. If you have to maintain thousands of instruments to do very little volume that collectively results in a large volume you are substantially less profitable than you would be if you performed a large testing volume on substantially fewer instruments. If you had any business accumen you would know that. By the way, you never did respond to the issue of Siemens not being the primary chemistry, immunoassay or automation vendor with any of the top 5 and I don't know if you even are the primary in any of the top 10. These are primarily very high volume, prestigious, academic medical centers where, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, quality of results are also important. Go figure. Siemens is a no show!

Keep laughing. In US chem

Keep laughing.
In US chem test volume Siemens is #2 with 28%, Roche is #3 with 22%.
Not close.
In US immuno test volume Siemens is #1 with 44% and Roche is #3 with 14%.Way, way behind in 3rd.
As you probably know, but also probably forgot, you make a lot more money on immunos than running a bunch of glucoses. Even with that said Roche languishes at #3 in chemistry test volume.
So who exactly is Roche crushing? Ortho? Abbott? Keep laughing when they give you the medal for participating.

Tooo funny!! Siemens has a

Tooo funny!! Siemens has a bunch of "installed base instruments" in hospitals that are 50 to 100 beds where nobody else plays. What's important is testing volume per installed base instrument and there Roche crushes everyone. So in the U.S News and World report top 5 hospitals how many of them have Siemens as the primary chemistry or immunoassay or automation vendor - Zero, nada, zilch, none. Go get your shine box!

US Chemistry install base,

US Chemistry install base, Roche is #3, with 15%, just ahead of #4 ortho with 13%. This is way down from 18% in 2007. Siemens is #1 with 38%.Looks like shrinkage for Roche.
US Immuno install base Roche is #4 with 9%, ahead of only ortho with 7%. Siemens is #1 with 45%.
You appear to be very proud of those numbers.
You must have low expectations.
As stated Roche has a very small market share and that appears to be shrinking.

I'll say it again-
Just keep repeating these two things:
Very low market share.Very low market share.
Customers have voted with their pocketbooks.
Roche keeps coming up short.

As stated below from the Dark

As stated below from the Dark Daily report. Siemens had 75% the capacity, but could only accomplish 50% of the speed. Roche IVD #1 Global, #3 US. Small market share? What numbers do you get shown lol.

Just keep repeating these two

Just keep repeating these two things:
Very low market share.Very low market share.
Customers have voted with their pocketbooks.
Roche keeps coming up short.

Oh that's right, I forgot

Oh that's right, I forgot Siemens has to have field techs that maintain just one account each because the analyzers are unreliable and go down so often that if they had more than one account to fix nothing would stay up and running.

The service rep came, fixed

The service rep came, fixed the Centaur, and it was up and ready to run more while the 6000 was still trying to finish the original run.

So how goes the Operational

So how goes the Operational Excellence ?

Hey, you know, you're right.

Hey, you know, you're right. It was 50% slower, but considering the Versacell had 75% greater throughput what's so impressive? Shouldn't it have been 75% faster? Seems like it fell short.

Since you'll bring it up, the Versa went against two cobas 6000 CE and was still "faster", but the menu was what, 38% IA? What hospital in the US does anything like that? 9-15% IA is more like it in the US and based on the given menu roche would have recommended a set-up more like CE and CEE, not CE CE. Also, since the CE and CE have the same menu it would allow the hospital to have a back-up if needed. What would the hospital do when their Centaur was down?

They were both given the same

They were both given the same tests to run. There were two runs of immuno and chemistry tests, typically run in any lab. The 6000s came up woefully short.
The Centaur will run a Troponin once presented in 17.5 minutes. The Vista will do it in 10 minutes. As the 6000s do not present the specimen immediately, especially if there is a line of tests in front of it, I'd say you don't win this one either.
Slow, slow slow. Get over it! It's no secret!

Additional economic facts

Additional economic facts under SS "leadership" based upon USD (not CHF)drawn from Roche Group Annual Reports: Roche Group Market Cap end of 2007 ~$154B (pre-SS leadership, 2009 SS invests ~$47B to purchase Genetech. Market value investment during SS tenure: $201B, Market Cap end of 2010 $131B. Implied current market cap given recent stock price decline ~$121B. A compounded value destruction of ~16% per year.

Why not be factual and say

Why not be factual and say that 5+ years of bad hiring and personnel practices loaded Roche with many has beens or never wases.

Lol, 50% slower when

Lol, 50% slower when comparing two completely unrelated labs, running unrelated menus. If I came into the hospital and needed a cardiac ran, how long would it take with a centaur or a Vista? Longer than a cobas. That is apples-to-apples. Taking labs with comparable menus, analyzers with comparable throughput, automation and tech expertise and then running a set menu would make the data worthwhile, otherwise the data means nothing other than, "Hey, look at this lab and it was faster with these analyzers than this lab with these analyzers that have unrelated menus." It is an example for only this particular situation. I'm not saying the data isn't accurate, but it doesn't tell people anything concrete.

Apples to apples is correct.

Apples to apples is correct. The 6000 is instruments bolted together. Let's argue the facts. SLOW is SLOW. Admit it and try selling features and benefits, if there are any.This was never a Siemens sales pitch. Just me stating the facts and you not responding to them. 50% SLOWER!

Post mortum meeting with

Post mortum meeting with employees in Branchburg - HR asked if mgmt if there will be layoffs - obvious plant in audience to raise the possibility to employees that downsizing is coming. Stated cost of Quality Mgmt is too high. There will be many more to follow than those 4.

major stretch*

major stretch*

Apples to Apples? Hardly.

Apples to Apples? Hardly. You obviously have no experience with statistics or labs. What it showed me is that neither of the siemens analyzers are worth a darn and you need another robot to run them for you to be efficient, because the interfaces, results, and TATs are different. I hope this isn't going to be a Siemens sales pitch, because it is a major switch. I knew Siemens was hurting, but I didn't think it was this bad.

puts a new twist on

puts a new twist on "Lifecycle"

Why wouldn't Roche fund the

Why wouldn't Roche fund the same type of report?
Because they know how it would turn out, the same reason Simens did fund it. Apples to apples, same tests v same tests, Roche proved to be very slow. Better than 50% slower. Those are the facts.
Are you saying Dark and Nexus are biased?
They have their reputation on the line.
As you probably know, both are very well thought of in this business.Why would they gamble that in a study where one system is so obviously slower than the other.

I read the Dark Daily report

I read the Dark Daily report comparing the Versacell to a c6000. A few things that make the whole report irrelevant. It was funded by Siemens, the two labs that were compared to each other have NOTHING in common. Siemens used a reference lab that also serves as one of their reference sites while the roche site was a small european hospital that has nothing in common with the siemens location.

It's a pretty pathetic attempt to be honest. It is like taking two race cars, putting a professional driver behind one and a kid who just got a drivers license behind the other.

If you want something to make a difference and support an accusation then it would probably be a good idea to compare apples to apples. I hope I read it slow enough for you.

In most venues this is

In most venues this is euphemism for being put out to pasture. Eli Lilly does a lot of "early retirement" too, mostly to get rid of the deadwood, psych cases and old alkies.

Roche offered me an early

Roche offered me an early retirement and I am set for life. I go to bed when I want to, wake up when I am rested, and travel the world wherever I want to go. I am now 57. Thanks Roche!

Operational Excellence: Remap

Operational Excellence: Remap employees to a lower skill, lower paying job in order to foster unhappiness and facilitate the departure of said employees. Essentially, Roche is aiming to squeeze employees out without having to actually layoff or fire said employees. In this way, Roche can keep their layoff numbers low and avoid paying severence.

The same Bozos are comning up with even more painful schemes to try to turn the boat in the right direction (or just save their own asses)

If investors have no confidence in these leaders, why should employees?

Try leaders fit for the job

Try leaders fit for the job

you cannot make excuses for

you cannot make excuses for SS regarding the poor performance of Roche stock. Sure things are tough and competitive in healthcare globally. However when you compare Roche's stock performance the last few years vs. Roche's peer group members like Pfizer, Novartis and a long list of others, Roche is at the bottom of the list. This guy (SS) does not have a clue and Roche needs to recapture the motivation of it's people by showing this guy the door. T

Take a look at these 5000+ layoffs. Its tough out there so be thankful you have a job but more importantly try to make things better in your immediate area. We are all suffering in some way and reading these depressing blurbs on SS or anyone for that matter has no merit when you yourself are clueless. Your at best a cubicle worker, first line mgr, area director, etc. What in the world do you know about CEO, COO CFO positions, zip, zero, nada, nothing. Sure you can read financial reports and see the stock is up or down. It's the behind the scenes that make you clueless. Stock will go down again this year, has nothing to due with SS at the helm. It's the world crisis we are all in. Everyone is feeling it but you i guess. Get a life.

Cannot cut the mustard in US

Cannot cut the mustard in US or Europa anymore to support SS & Co. at the top of the pyramid. Must go after Asia! Lot of people there!
"we innovate healthcare".

Meanwhile the circular firing squads continue

March 1 -2008 SS takes the

March 1 -2008 SS takes the reigns and stock price at ~225.00 CHF. March 15, 2011 stock price ~125.00 CHF. Long term view, understood. Is consistent value destruction over a 3 year period acceptable? How long does the Roche board allow SS to destroy value-is long term 4 years and Roche stock at 100 CHF?

You fail to understand the

You fail to understand the europeans are going thru a financial crisis now just like what we had for 2 yrs in America. Most euro hospitals, vendors, etc are not paying bills which means not buying any additional product.

Cut, cut ,cut. no money period. It's actually a world wide spending cut. We as Americans don't do that but other country actually control spending much better. Hang tight, ride the roll a coaster up and downs, turn around in a 1.5 yrs. Lots of stuff in the Roche pipeline but thats 3 yrs out.

Leadership controls day to day operation, future growth but when you are talking of large companies like Roche, Lilly, Glaxcosmithkline, J&J, etc, The stock market analysis actually have the most power in revenue. Its a known fact that analysis are much harder on Roche than any other company due to Roche standards, long term and NOT immediate financial success. The key is LONG TERM.

The investment community is

The investment community is clearly understanding SS inability to lead. With almost a 27% decline in value this past 12 months, and 3 new 52 week lows in the past 14 days, it seems clear that Roche is in huge need of new senior leadership who can actually create, not destroy, value.

That's not really true. You

That's not really true.
You must be a liberal based on your twisting of the truth.
JP was never a sales rep at Ventana.
He was an RSM with Bayer when he was hired as a Sales Director by CG.
Jack is the least of Roche's problems.
Why not be factual and say that 5+ years of bad hiring and personnel practices loaded Roche with many has beens or never wases.

Jack Van Kampen, Denny Ware,

Jack Van Kampen, Denny Ware, Marting Maddous, and even Andre' De bruin were my favorites.

For someone to take the RDC

For someone to take the RDC CEO job requires:
* no "bagage" or history with the main Roche organization.
* willingness to take a big risk, since your chances are less than 1 in 4 of lasting 18 months.
* you would have to be so inexperienced that you accept and do everything the Swiss tell you to do.
* you are not an industry "captain", which is what RDC needs, but industry captains do not want to jump on a sinking ship where all the orders are coming from Basel.

Is it a coincidence that each succesive CEO/President has less to offer that his/her predecessor?

How about those bonuses and

How about those bonuses and profit sharing?



That is your problem.

In a recently released white

In a recently released white paper by Nexus Global Solutions featured in the Dark Daily Report it compared one Siemens Advia 1800 tied to one Centaur XP via a versacell against one Roche 6000 and two Roche 6000s. The Siemens pair blew away the one 6000 and also beat TWO 6000s in a speed comparison.
Talk all you will about 50 wells, this is proof positive in a straight up speed comparison.
If you did not understand, read this and the report a little more slowly.

Give everyone an extra week

Give everyone an extra week of vacation in '11 to make them feel good. Then back a much larger amount out of their paychecks another way later. FU business model, the swiss way

The Roche global cost

The Roche global cost reduction process will strike many. Prepare for the worst, ignore at your own and your family's peril

Any news on colleagues in

Any news on colleagues in Japan?

Bloodbath at RMS Branchburg

Bloodbath at RMS Branchburg Wednesday. Stephanie N, Myles K, Stuart P, and Peter L gone.

What gives?

A very good take on the CC/IA

A very good take on the CC/IA market. Volumes give discounts vs time to results. Look at South Bend.

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